tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6583274002388670284.post1675857827590853805..comments2012-11-04T18:14:56.277-08:00Comments on Unstoppable Force, Immovable Object: I Enjoy Being a GirlAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06377750317384479713noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6583274002388670284.post-40953675687057881022012-01-27T19:05:00.734-08:002012-01-27T19:05:00.734-08:00Mmm. I have a long and dedicated history of being ...Mmm. I have a long and dedicated history of being a people pleaser and an almost pathological fear of getting in trouble, which is, I think, why I let this business eat at me. But you're right. I don't really give two figs if my motives are misunderstood except that it sometimes involves the messy business of setting the record straight when someone reads me wrong.<br /><br />How much do I love the phrase, "shock value attention whore," by the way? A lot. That's how much.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377750317384479713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6583274002388670284.post-88211175339491618842012-01-27T08:56:30.816-08:002012-01-27T08:56:30.816-08:00I love this topic! I am a girl who often talks lo...I love this topic! I am a girl who often talks locker room trash just like I'm one of the guys, BUT when i do... Either i am perceived as a flirty slut, OR a shock value attention whore. Which is a shame, because I think I am a comedian (a la Sarah Silverman). Over the course of my life, it has been guys (well, boyfriends) telling me "if you were a guy, that would be funny, but youre a girl and youre gonna give people the wrong idea..." The real question is: to care what people think or NOT to care. I dont want people thinking "bad" and untrue things about me, but why should I have to censor myself? Aquarians are SO misunderstood..... oi.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6583274002388670284.post-48827917016420291502011-12-20T21:35:59.109-08:002011-12-20T21:35:59.109-08:00Nah, I have no intention of changing my ways. For...Nah, I have no intention of changing my ways. For starters it sounds incredibly stressful and labor intensive and for seconders, I would still struggle for objectivity so I'd probably just make a huge ass of myself. I'm just suggesting that it might be a good idea for me to attempt to fill in the gaping blind spot I have when it comes to an objective assessment of how I'm being perceived.<br /><br />As far as professionalism -- who wants to be management anyway? I've already advanced to the top of my field short of being one of three high mucky mucks despite what might generously be called an unorthodox managerial demeanor all the way around. This is the advantage of working in a field where "business attire" consists of long underwear and duckcloth. The definition of "appropriate" for a female longshoreman is ambiguous at best.<br /><br />The more I ponder, the more I realize I wrote this looking for input as to whether my moral compass was out of whack or if I just happened to encounter a pocket of mild, unintentional misogyny among people I otherwise like and respect. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I was mostly baiting you and Rob, my resident commenters who also happen to be conveniently gendered to address the issue at hand. <br />I spent my twenties talking about your underpants (Sample Depends from AARP, anyone?), so you of all people can speak directly to it.<br /><br />On an only marginally related note, I was, and still am, hoping for input from strangers who agree or don't. I think maybe the comments section looks like a private party of three, but maybe someday some brave soul will jump in. Hear that, stranger readers? Jump in!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377750317384479713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6583274002388670284.post-12561733629436807462011-12-20T10:40:51.766-08:002011-12-20T10:40:51.766-08:00"...I really ought to be more realistic about..."...I really ought to be more realistic about what my behavior signifies to people outside of the hermetic world I've created for myself and act accordingly." At the risk of going all Aristotelian on you, I have to say the other side of this argument is the folly of basing everything we do on its signification to the outside world. What I seek is the uneasy equilibrium where I communicate with the outside world directly without a perceived separation.<br /><br />Reading your characterization of off-color banter as a come on, I thought about how courts used to investigate what the victim was wearing. Your closing point about blaming the victim is spot on (because you agreed with me. Ha!). <br /><br />I have also learned over many years that there's another reason to "watch my language." In professional situations, and not just among workers and management, it's among peers-- excessive informality is perceived as unprofessional. Who knew? If I had known 30 years ago, I might be in management now.A Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11218596616161358349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6583274002388670284.post-86923584904730762942011-12-19T18:37:17.054-08:002011-12-19T18:37:17.054-08:00Yup. That's about what I was trying to get at...Yup. That's about what I was trying to get at. Thanks for being concise for me. <br /><br />I kind of want to put it on a business card and just hand it out as necessary.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377750317384479713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6583274002388670284.post-9500432691151328832011-12-19T17:52:47.428-08:002011-12-19T17:52:47.428-08:00Well, we have a week off between xmas and NY, so l...Well, we have a week off between xmas and NY, so let us know. <br /><br />I think that, as a guy with a raging libido and rather wild sexual history, that I can say this without sounding like a prissy, feminine apologist, and thus discredit what I am trying to say- But seriously, men need to get over themselves. Thinking that every woman who makes a joke about what you have in your pants means she wants to whip it out right there and go down on you is just plain ignorant, arrogant and stupid. It is just a sad excuse for men to be lazy in their faculties of judgement and morality by putting the entire burden of sexual regulation on women. It is pathetic, and one aspect of being a man I am not proud to share with my fellow men.Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10541484882834441713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6583274002388670284.post-43562027783608083942011-12-19T17:04:57.428-08:002011-12-19T17:04:57.428-08:00Yeah, I've put myself in a slightly weird posi...Yeah, I've put myself in a slightly weird position on this blog where I'd intended for it to operate a little bit more as a sounding board than a soap box, but I haven't really, since the early posts, been moved to write on personal subjects. <br /><br />I think ultimately I've just been feeling a little accused and maybe a little hurt by the idea that maybe the way I approach my life is perceived as somehow dishonest or seedy. I guess I just kind of needed to lay all of this out so I could look at it, and also because I'm very conscious of the gigantic blindspot surrounding the way we perceive ourselves being perceived vs. what other people actually see. I'm curious to know how other people understand and experience this, so thank you.<br /><br />Also, one of the reasons I approached it from a gender perspective is that it's been presented to me ("it" being wanton non-sexual flirting, I guess) on more than one occasion as a feminine flaw. You're right, of course, that all situations and people are different, and as I said, it's not my intention to paint all men or all women with the same brush. <br /><br />Aside from trying to evaluate my own m.o., I think I'm also grappling with the idea that there are actually quite a few men in my life (including several I might not have expected it from) subscribe to this idea that a woman flirting, or even using mildly sexual language as in the high five anecdote, should always be signaling interest and availability else she's being a sneaky liar. I doubt that they assume a man using similar language is gay and hitting on them. I guess it just strikes me as a kind of neanderthal approach to human interaction and a disappointing thing to learn about friends. <br /><br />You may have noticed I'm still struggling to articulate just what's on my mind, but your comments are definitely in the right ballpark and, as always, engaging food for thought. <br /><br />On the clumsy segue front: The way you described Jen's accidental flirtiness is almost exactly how I would describe my own situation. Which is just another reason that I'm sure we'll hit it off when we finally meet sometime after the holidays. Ahem.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377750317384479713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6583274002388670284.post-47700605173738366172011-12-19T05:51:09.327-08:002011-12-19T05:51:09.327-08:00Okay, honestly, I have to start by saying that I d...Okay, honestly, I have to start by saying that I don't *quite* get where you are exactly going/ coming out on this. I think I do, but, as you said, it's not as clear-cut as your usual line of thinking. So, please bear with ME if I am off a bit.<br /><br />My wife is in a similar position. She is one of the biggest unconscious flirts I know; she flirts with virtually everyone, all the time, men and women... and never, ever thinks she's flirting. In her mind, if she is initiating something sexual, you'll know it. But to everyone else, her daily, funny, very friendly, maybe slightly sexual banter can come off as a touch on the flirty side. I think its adorable. But it does stress her out from time to time when someone seems to take it the wrong way.<br /><br />In a similar way, I flirt with pretty much every woman I meet that I might, over the course of a million years, consider being with. Which is almost everyone. But in real life, of course, almost none of those encounters will go anywhere. And sometimes that is taken the wrong way too, in both a "Ugh, dude, get away from me" way and a crap-she-just-took-me-way-too-seriously-where's-the-nearest-exit? kinda way. And many times I have found myself on the opposite end- receiving fairly unwelcome flirtations in entirely inappropriate situations, from both men and women. The one benefit of being hit on by your much older male boss or professor is that it gives a guy a sense of what it feels like to be a young woman before an unwelcome advance. And it makes you never want to be "that guy."<br /><br />So I guess what I am saying is that I don't think this is a gender issue as much as it is a human one. Sure, there are differences in the way each gender approaches sex, but there are also a lot of similarities. Third-wave feminism has throw a lot of confusion into the mix- when girls are Proud Sluts, what IS a man to do? But completely removing sexuality from our interactions and daily lives makes for a world so dull I would rather not live in it. <br /><br />There is no universal answer, because every situation, every person on the other end, has the potential to act differently. Sometimes its okay, sometimes it is not. Sometimes you can read that ahead of time, sometimes you don't find out until way too late. But in the same way, sometimes you can lend a friend $100, sometimes, some friends, you can't. And you usually don't know until it is too late.<br /><br />I wish I could give you a universal maxim, but alas, I don't think one exists here.Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10541484882834441713noreply@blogger.com